Forum · Chin Strap and Tape No Longer Working

Write a Reply
41 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] baseten +0 points · 11 months ago

My pressure setting is 13-15. I am a petite female and have had to use the Resmed P10 mask because I cannot get a good seal with full face masks.

I have used the P10 for a year along with the basic Respironics chin strap to keep my tongue in the right place and my mouth from opening. I also tape my mouth shut to prevent any small leaks. This has been effective until recently, even with a new chinstrap. I'm getting chipmunk cheeks, and my mouth is opening slightly, even when I tighten the chin strap. If I tighten it too much, I get a bad headache.

I have also tried the Resmed Premium chin strap and the Puresom classic chin strap, the latter which irritates my skin. And I have tried a neck brace.

I have two questions:

  1. Would an oral devise in conjunction with the nasal pillows eliminate the need for taping and the chin strap, yet keep my tongue in place?

  2. As a second option, is there a full face mask for a petite face? I really like the Resmed F10, but it will not keep the seal when my head relaxes and lowers slightly, and that's before I fall asleep and my jaw drops.

Thanks for your help.

579 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] wiredgeorge +0 points · 11 months ago Sleep Enthusiast

Well, all I can do is offer some insight based on my own experience. I suffered mask leaks for almost a year and almost entirely due to mouth leaks. I only figured this out after someone else on this forum explained that was the only way a mask leak could occur if the mask fit correctly. I first started with an Respironics Amara View and it leaked like a sieve. At the time, I thought it was fitment. I went to a full face mask called an F&P Simplus but mask leaks were from 80-110 L/min. I eased the leaking issue by using mask pads and it kept air out of my mouth. Then someone pointed out mouth leaks and I noticed that my jaw went slack and the full face mask bottom edge ended up in my mouth and thus the leaking. It is almost embarrassing to think I didn't see this myself.

After looking into options, the chin strap seemed a lot more appealing than tape. I bought a chin strap but it remains in the box. In the interim, I read about using a mixed martial arts mouth guard that is fitted/shaped to my bite which would keep my jaw from slackening during the night. It was a cure! I also went back to the Amara View mask and it works great as it is a full face mask that fits up under your nose with no frame between the eyes and maintains a great seal. The bottom straps need to be pulled snug so the bottom of the mask fits into the valley under my lower lip and now I think I have got mask leaks solved. I can't use nasal pillows as my pressure is 25/21 but I did try a nasal mask (Wisp) and hated it as the exhaust holes were too small and I couldn't breathe easily and it got very very wet from lack of ventilation.

well, hope this helped. The MMA mouth guard costs about $3 on amazon.com. You drop it in hot water for a couple seconds then put it in your mouth and bite down. I did ruin one by leaving it in the water too long and turned into a blob. Suggest two of them if you go this route. I have used mine for several months now and clean it with mild, unscented hand soap and a tooth brush.

Last bit... everything I have heard about chins straps is that they are iffy at best as far as keep the jaw shut. When you jaw slackens, your jaw slides back and your bite comes apart and subsequently the mouth opens a bit. It isn't just that the jaw drops downward; if that were the case, perhaps the chin strap would be more effective.

41 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] baseten +0 points · 11 months ago

Thank you very much. I'll give that a try.

29 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] Baba +0 points · 10 months ago

RationalRed- Did you try the mouthguard too? Wiredgeorge-Is it a one piece mouthguard? Can you show it to us somehow on Amazon or just explain its look? I bought one but it is one piece and it not meant to heat it up in water. It has a white plug to pull out of it so that maybe if it was out, some air could come out of the mouth. I'm not sure I want air coming out of my mouth using nasal pillows or even coming into my mouth from the air pressure. Chin strap never worked. I just have to keep my tongue to the roof of my mouth would be fine but upon relaxing and sleep it drops down and again, chipmunk cheeks.

29 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] Baba -1 point · 11 months ago

RationalRedVioletStork3545 I know all about chipmunk cheeks. I found out that my mild to medium apnea did not need to be set at 15 because I never used more than 9.8 ever so they reduced it to 10.5. I still once in awhile get cheek puffing just because I can't always keep my tongue to the roof of my mouth when I am totally asleep and that wakes me up. It seems like when my tongue is at the roof of my mouth and when I probably am in rem sleep and need a higher level of air, a little air puffs out of my lips. Paper tape was the only thing that worked. Lately I use a hair headband and put it around my head over my mouth. That keeps pressure on my cheeks and doesn't let the air escape past my tongue and around the sides of my cheeks. I tried a headband from the med. equip. store but I can still puff air out of my pinched lips and I like less, not more equipment. I use a nasal mask. I tried full masks but I roam around the bed from side to side and then they leak. Oh yes, I did try the oral device from Amazon but I hated it in my mouth.

75 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] DrTonySoileau +0 points · 11 months ago
  1. Would an oral devise in conjunction with the nasal pillows eliminate the need for taping and the chin strap, yet keep my tongue in place?

The answer to that is probably yes. We have many patients each month come to us for an oral appliance because they are frustrated with the same issues you are having. Some use both CPAP and oral appliance together and some switch to only oral appliance. If you go this route at some point make sure to get sleep study with the oral appliance in after 1-3 month to make sure it working effectively.

The idea of trying an inexpensive one size fits all appliance like Wiredgeorge suggested is not a bad idea. It may work great and save you some money. Please keep in mind the boil and bite appliances are prone to starting TMJ issues for a variety of reasons. But if its working to help you sleep but causing some TMJ dysfunction you can then go to a sleep dentists for a custom appliance knowing it will be worth your time and money. Some custom appliances are better for patients that prefer to sleep with their mouth open. Better to breath in your nose and out your mouth. But that's another discussion for another time. But if you just have to breath through your mouth consider an appliance where the top and bottom pieces are not joined together.

Dr Tony

29 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] Baba +0 points · 10 months ago

Great Dr. Tony

29 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] Baba +0 points · 10 months ago

Dr. Tony- I used the cheaper oral appliance. I gave it a try. Because it is hinged when I tried putting into my mouth, I could still lower my jaw below it and could breathe out my mouth. I don't want that. My headband idea is the only thing let keeps my mouth shut, my teeth almost touching, and my tongue from stop falling and relaxing. Better than the tape, and chin strap. The chin strap still lets me lightly pinch air out of my lips. If I tighten a chin strap up anymore, my jaw would hurt. The oral appliance is uncomfortable so going to have one fitted to my mouth would be my waste of money for what i need and I don't think it could stop with the puffing of air into my cheeks or letting my tongue loose in my mouth. The light paper tape was next to the best thing but the headband around my head, over my lips, and pushing in my cheeks was the best thing I found yet. Now to get rid of the headband lines around my face in the am. lol For comfort I have a nose pillows. Full mask always leaked air because of my sleeping on my side besides I find it more invading.

41 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] baseten +1 point · 11 months ago

Thank you everyone for your help. I will try all the suggestions. I don't understand why my method of taping, using a chin strap and nasal pillows is suddenly not working, but that seems to be the way it is.

My boil and bite mouth guard should arrive any day, and I will try the head band too.

Thanks again!

29 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] Baba +0 points · 10 months ago

I also have struggled with this problem for over a year. Because I sleep on my side and move around, I tried a full face mask covering my nose and my mouth and it always leaked. I stayed with my Nasal pillows for comfort and it also stayed in place. I have light to medium sleep apnea. Someone pointed out to keep or train the tongue to the roof of my mouth. What I found out was during a deep sleep my tongue and teeth/jaw relaxes and air comes into my mouth and out my lips (hence putting paper tape on my lips) which works for most of the time. Sometimes with my air pressure from my Air Sense 10 machine, during the night air still puffed out my cheeks (chipmunk cheeks) and continually would wake me up and then I would put my tongue back into the roof of my mouth to stop air coming into my mouth. I tried the chin strap but not only was it uncomfortable, the tongue relaxation would still leak out of my lips again waking me up. Then I read someone that said they used a hair headband wrapped lowered over the head across the lips. LOW AND BEHOLD it worked by keeping my lips closed, my teeth bottom and top touching, my tongue would stay at the roof of my mouth and it put pressure on my cheeks not letting any leaking air puff out my cheeks. I needed string sewed into the headband so it did not fall below my lips and onto my neck. I do have a cheap mouth appliance but find it also uncomfortable and I haven't tried it long enough to see if it works. Only ONE DOWNFALL with the headband is that it leaves me with marks on my face for half of the next day. My numbers though stay perfect but sometime ago I did reduce my top 15 presure down to 10.5 on my Air Sense 10. Reports say I never use more than 9.8 so that works. I hope this makes sense.

41 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] baseten +0 points · 11 months ago

I mentioned that I don't understand why it's suddenly not working. I've used that method successfully for a year now without any problems. I even opened 2 packages of my chin strap to make sure that that was not the problem. I'm 56 and a female. My doctor said that apnea gets worse for menopausal women. That's the only thing I can think of, but my method has worked beautiful until the last 2 weeks with hardly any problems on the computer read-out.

29 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] Baba +0 points · 10 months ago

Your idea worked for me for a long time too. Nasal pillows and then taping, and then headband and perhaps now the mouth guard if I can stand it and it keeps my tongue up into the roof of my mouth without my unconsciously letting it down while sleeping. Headband works fine but I hate the marks on my cheeks until noon the next day. lol

By the way myAir score is perfect.

29 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] Baba +0 points · 10 months ago

I just used my oral appliance I bought. Darn, I can still breath out my mouth under the appliance if my jaw dropped. Back to the headband.

29 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] Baba +0 points · 10 months ago

1/7/2017 I am now back to the mouthpiece and a very small tape on my lips. I am used to both and they work like a charm. I didn't think I would get used to the mouthpiece from Amazon but it takes a few nights and the results are perfect for me. I've tried everything before. I am the one that used paper tape, jaw strap, and even a headband across my lips and around my head (that worked but you should have seen the lines on my face all day long the next day). I've got it down pat and my results are perfect after every night.

7 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] DWalsh +0 points · 9 months ago

Baba, do you have a link to the mouthpiece on Amazon?

15 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] PracticalTanMandrill9358 +0 points · 9 months ago

I'm 26 years old and I have been having sleep issues all my life. I took a sleep study, but the test seemed highly flawed and I still haven't ever gotten to talk to the dr. face to face. They refused. They told me to see a Throat and Nose dr. about snoring issues. I saw both dr.s and they both concluded that nothing was wrong. That I didnt need surgery. I asked them what I could try and they both suggested an oral appliance. I did this and tried two different kind. My sleep didn't improve and I kept waking up through the night, still feeling terrible the next day. I then purchased my own sleep machine off of craigslist because the dr. refused to help me, and refused to sell me one. I had already paid a large some of money for everything so I couldn't just see another sleep dr. So I had trouble with several different masks. I finally decide to try a nasales mask since I move around a lot and feel uncomfortable with full face mask while sleeping.

I think there might be still hope for the sleep apnea machine, and I think I still need to test it on different settings. Based on what I'm about to say do you think that as well? I tried it a couple times with nasal mask, but one time the air was so much it collected in my cheeks. So maybe I should consider lowering the pressure? Also I had issues with the hose because it was cold in my room. So water did go up the hose very well. So should I try it again when it isn't winter?

Also I have tried the tape method separate from the machine but so far it seems to act very similar to how the mouth piece did. I have tried tape method for 2 months. I still feel terrible every day. I will say the color around my eyes do look a bit better and not nearly as black on most days.

Even when I weighed 140-145 pounds I still have issues with sleep. I have never slept well. Every night I wake up multiple times, and never feel rested. I always feel exhausted.

Is there still hope that the sleep apnea machine could work? I have read many success stories and I'm hoping I could finally fix my problem. I have spent so much of my own money to fix this problem, but still haven't found a solution. Thanks for any and all suggstions.

504 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] DanM +0 points · 9 months ago Sleep Enthusiast

Hi PracticalTanMandrill9358. Your username is randomly assigned, but you can change it by going to the icon next to the search button at the top of the screen. Choose settings and type your new name in the Forum name field. As for your sleep problems, it sounds like you have had a rough time finding help. Since CPAP settings are specific to each user and require a prescription, it is hard to say whether it will help you. If you do not have sleep apnea, then I wonder if the machine is going to do any good. Also, too much air pressure can cause other breathing problems during sleep, so please be careful. CPAP treatment can be an amazingly helpful therapy for those who have sleep apnea and need treatment. I think you should persist with trying to get answers from your physician. There are many things besides sleep apnea that can cause the symptoms you describe. Best wishes!

15 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] PracticalTanMandrill9358 +0 points · 9 months ago

Also I just joined here so I have no idea why my username is like that. So my apologies.

579 posts
Was this reply useful? Learn more...
   
[-] wiredgeorge +0 points · 9 months ago Sleep Enthusiast

Usernames are computer generated. Go to the tab to the left of the search icon at the top left of the page. Click on it and change your username. Your username is called FORUM NAME. They are kind of awkward coming from the computer.

Write a Reply
Please be advised that these posts may contain sensitive material or unsolicited medical advice. MyApnea.Org does not endorse the content of these posts. The information provided on this site is not intended nor recommended as a substitute for advice from a health care professional who has evaluated you.