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Heated Hose Can Bite!

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 3 months ago Original Poster Sleep Commentator

I am often woken by a very painful, escalating sting from the nasal pillows. Like a wasp or bee sting inside the nose. Usually I tear the device off and rub it till it subsides then reset the nasal pillows and go back to sleep but it is a bad way to be woken and last night it returned with a vengeance the moment I put the mask back on.

My initial assumption was that it was a chemical or bacterial issue due to irregular cleaning but better cleaning routines have made no difference. My second theory was that it is caused by some kind of static or electrical discharge from the Resmed S9 or the climate control hose. (Pressure 12.5 Humidity 5.5)

I haven't been able to find any discussions on this particular subject. Has anyone else had this issue? Have they managed to isolate the cause and ensure that it does not continue to occur? Should I start a deforestation program to eliminate contact points? :O

I am usually indifferent to discomfort but this is acutely, eye-wateringly painful, and it doesn't feel like it's just my imagination, so I would really appreciate some help here.

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Sierra +0 points · 3 months ago Sleep Innovater

I use the ResMed AirFit P10 nasal pillow mask and have experienced something similar, but I would not say as painful as a bee sting. I attribute it to the skin being pinched somehow. I generally just pull the mask out slightly from my face and allow the silicone to inflate and straighten out. Then I put it back. Generally goes away. If I don't shave closely to my nose, and there is a bit of stubble left, that seems to make it worse. The P10 comes as a fit pack with three different sized mask inserts. I have found that using the largest size possible that doesn't leak works out the best. A smaller size will go to far into the nostrils and cause irritation. It is best to have the mask cones sitting on the bottom of your nose rather than inside -- at least with the P10 version.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 3 months ago Original Poster Sleep Commentator

Thanks for your response Sierra.

I can usually ignore most things and yes this did start, a few years back, similarly to your description and I do believe that hairs and follicles play a key role in the process, because they are more sensitive and perhaps also because they could act as conduits for static, but it has become much more painful over time and is unlikely to be related to pinching or pulling or pressure as far as I can tell and I do use the largest pillows with the looses functional strapping possible.

I Keep telling myself that everything is just perspective, and pain is a very personal thing with no real way to measure or verify, so it would be easy to exaggerate pain in our minds, but this wakes me up urgently and desperately from a deep sleep and I don't usually have trouble ignoring pain so I doubt that my imagination is that good.

I will try swapping out components and hope to isolate the cause by omission.

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Sierra +0 points · 3 months ago Sleep Innovater

Which model of mask are you using? Is it possible the silicone is getting old and less flexible, or is it new? I have only tried two nasal pillow masks, the P10 and the F&P Brevida. The P10 has been more comfortable for me, but my wife now uses the Brevida and likes it.

It doesn't seem to make sense that it would be a static problem, although it is not clear these machines are grounded. My wife uses the S9 with the Brevida mask and has not mentioned this kind of issue. The heated hose will have power in it, but I can't see how that could get to your nose. Seems the most the hose heater could do is fail open. If you have an unheated hose, you may want to try that to see if it makes any difference...

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 3 months ago Original Poster Sleep Commentator

Once again thank you Sierra

I use the Phillips Nuance and yes it is old.

Changing the hose is a good suggestion and the first thing I intend to do. It is summer here so I should be removing the climate control hose from the equation anyway.

I'm not sure about the dynamics when it comes to possible electrical currents but the problem seems to be exacerbated by the wet conditions created when the humidity is set very high.

This is my second climate control hose because the first one began glitching the machine. (causing it to refuse to operate) So some level of suspicion might be warranted?

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Sierra +0 points · 3 months ago Sleep Innovater

I checked my wife's S9 machine which has the heated ClimateLine hose. The power supply is a non polarized two pin AC plug, so it is not grounded to the house electrical ground. Normally when an electrical appliance has a two pin non polarized plug (can be put in either way) a double insulation system is used to protect the user from any electrical fault. But I suppose that could fail. Using the plain non heated hose should rule out the electrical fault possibility.

My wife's machine has the humidity control set to Auto, and the temperature is set at 27 C. She uses it like that year around here in Canada without rainout issues.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 3 months ago Original Poster Sleep Commentator

Ahh What I would give to spend a season or two in Canada!

Our coldest state is Tasmania, which would be warm by your standards, and I do spend a lot of time down there, in a house that gets quite cold, which is the main reason for the heated hose, especially because in winter the general humidity levels are also very low.

I have switched the hose and wound back the humidifier but I didn't see an auto option. It's been a while since I played with all the key settings so I might have to go looking for a manual before I can change much else.

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Sierra +0 points · 3 months ago Sleep Innovater

There will only be an auto option if you use the heated hose. With the standard hose it reverts back to manual control of humidity and no control of temperature.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 2 months ago Original Poster Sleep Commentator

Ok the verdict is in! Removing the heated hose has stopped the pain.

The first heated hose kept shorting out the CPAP machine and the second heated hose kept shorting out my nose hairs! :O

Has anybody else had these issues?

What do I do about it? I need a non-zapping heated hose before winter returns or I will have to spend a fortune keeping the bedroom warm. Any suggestions?

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Sierra +0 points · 2 months ago Sleep Innovater

I suspect your heated hose or the machine itself has an electrical defect.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · about 1 month ago Original Poster Sleep Commentator

I started a different thread (Humidifier Dysfunction) recently and it is part of this same story.

I now believe that the Resmed 9 must have a fault in the electrical system that damages the humidifier and the attached heated hose.

It may even be dangerous. (or at least my nose hairs think so)

I was looking at a link that you posted, Sierra, to do with medical devices https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/medical-devices-11-2018/

And this description got my attention.

"Patient's husband woke up due to strong burning smell and noticed heated hose that had burned and melted as well as their bedding. machine was plugged in and the hose was draped on the bed. have the product 4 years never happened before. root cause undete"

This was not the only incident of fires associated with CPAP machines in that report.

I realise that it's not actual evidence and I am not recommending drastic action.

Just some awareness and a little bit of caution.

In the meantime I have a couple of heated hoses that might still be ok ...... any offers? :)

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Sierra +0 points · about 1 month ago Sleep Innovater

Well at least you can take that nose hair trimmer off your shopping list!

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · about 1 month ago Original Poster Sleep Commentator

I was thinking of using the whipper snipper. :P

What is the use by date for the Resmed 9 and have there been any recalls?

I don't know if we would hear about them over here even if I had been contactable.

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Sierra +0 points · about 1 month ago Sleep Innovater

I found this link which gives a little detail on adverse reports on the ResMed S9 machines. However, to drill down it appears you have to pay for the service.

http://fdable.com/basic_query/maude/98148749ff1d5b98bb89fc9116169525

From what I could find it seems the machine has not had any formal recall, but is susceptible to running the humidifier dry and causing a stink. I have done that on my A10. It also seems like the humidifier can be damaged by overfilling and the water causing damage to the humidifier circuitry.

You might want to call ResMed directly and complain. I believe their headquarters is in Australia. I assume off warranty, but who knows, they may be willing to do something to protect their brand reputation.

The other option is just buying a new machine of course. If you are paying for it out of pocket, I recall seeing somewhere that it may be less expensive to buy out of the US and have it shipped to Australia. I see the current price for a new AirSense 10 AutoSet is $785 US (1100 $AUD?) at Second Wind CPAP. They ship internationally. A quick check of an on line place in Australia shows $1800 AUD for the same machine.

Machines tend to be cheaper in Canada, but most dealers say they will not ship internationally. This one company I found does not rule it out. Here is the same AirSense 10 AutoSet with heated hose for $825 CDN, which I think works out to be about $870 AUD. They do not rule out international shipping as an option but shipping is not free and you have to contact them to get the cost. The For Her version is available at the same price. But, if you need more than 12 cm pressure the For Her mode will probably not work for you anyway.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · about 1 month ago Original Poster Sleep Commentator

You are brilliant with the research Sierra. Thank you.

I will take it back to to the service centre as soon as possible and see what happens.

I imagine they will give me a temporary machine and eventually decide to just leave me with it but I can't imagine having much choice in the matter because this machine belongs to the hospital.

I didn't realise the 'for her' version was limited in overall pressure. 12 would do for me atm but I do sometimes wind it up by 1 or 2 and who knows what the future holds.

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Sierra +0 points · about 1 month ago Sleep Innovater

The For Her machine is the same as the standard machine and can go up to 20 cm in pressure. In the For Her mode however I believe it only goes up to 12 cm in response to apnea events.

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