BrainsNeedSleep

Yikes. Have you looked at Dr Thomas's article on complex sleep apnea? I've got it myself and didn't get treatment that worked until I went to see him and started using the EERS treatment (simple) -- massive change. Here's a link to the article on this site: https://myapnea.org/blog/2016/02/complex-sleep-apnea or go to Blogs, then Research, and look for that title. I don't know if that will help, but .... give it a read?

I'm not sure I entirely understand your post, especially the question at the end. One reason SleepyHead might be saying there is no new info could be that, after the last time you downloaded from your SD card into SleepyHead, you left the SD card locked. If the SD card is locked and you put it back into the CPAP, the PAP will not be able to write new data onto the card.

For those who use PCs, the SD card apparently does not need to be locked before inserting the card into your computer's SD card slot. I use a Mac laptop and MUST lock the card first, or Mac, an otherwise delightful fellow, will try to write a bit of code onto the card and mess things all up. So I have to remember to LOCK card, then insert into computer to upload, then eject card, UNLOCK it, and reinsert into the PAP machine.

Does that help at all?

As for the download: into SleepyHead, you will get all kinds of data, most of which unless you are a respiratory tech or sleep professional -- OR a very-well-educated consumer -- you will not know what to do with. MyApnea is hoping at some point to have some info here about how to look at SleepyHead data; there are other forums on the web where some people have become quite expert at it and will offer help (at your own risk); but basically it will tell you what the MACHINES are flagging (there will be more things happening than the machines will flag...). ResMed does not flag "RERAS" and Respironics does -- in SleepyHead -- but all will show apneas, hypopneas, snoring, mask leaks etc. The most important thing is the breathing waveform -- it looks like a black squiggly line all night -- and that, like the other horizontal band charts, is expandable so you can see down to the seconds exactly how you are breathing. You also see when things happen in relation to each other: mask leaks happening and triggering an apnea, for instance...

This is all a lot of info. But if you learn it, you will be able to tell what behavioral, pharmaceutical, and/or even dietary changes you make that hurt and help your sleep. It has made a huge difference for me, and I am in NO way a well-informed or skilled user.

good luck.

A couple of things:

1. Using one number to judge sleep IMO is ... let's just say not the best idea. Use your judgment about daily functioning, regardless of the numbers. For me, I can be a zombie with an AHI under 2 -- but if my sleep fragmentation was bad the night before, the next day functioning is definitely impaired: I've been tracking this for over 6 months in specific fashion now.
2. I am not entirely certain of this but I have been told that once you start on the PAP, you are having some sort of make-up sleep, may have rebound REM (again, not sure of the terminology), and your sleep architecture (what stage you're in, at any given point of time) changes. So as another responder above said, it may be that now you are in deeper sleep at get-up time, and that certainly can make you feel groggy. Brain fog, on the other hand, that lasts all day, is a separate issue.

I would suggest, if you are so inclined, to download SleepyHead software, and read the data on your SD card in SleepyHead. That will give you a much, much better idea of what is actually going on in your sleep than the software your PAP company gives you. In conjunction with my ResMed device, I am also using a separate device called SleepImage, and this week am tracking the data from that with the data in SleepyHead to sort out a few remaining issues.

Good luck with this -- come back and let us know how it's going, and I wouldn't wait too very long for improvement. A few weeks, a month, and you should be seeing SOME sort of betterment, IMO.

Maybe we can do updated graphics after set periods of time. Be interesting to look at a series of clouds and see what is changing over time.

LOVE SleepyHead. Am also doing a trial of SleepImage.com (no relation) and like that it gives sleep interruptions (trying to find out from them what they are, to the device) and also position in bed -- I thought I had managed with pillows to stop rolling onto back, but -- apparently not!

JediMark tells on his site which machines and oximeters his software supports.

OMG! Been there, done that, FINALLY getting better! If you would like some more reading, read the article I wrote for this site (briefly) about my experience -- specifically about the EERS treatment for complex apnea that has given me my brain back, but in general you may notice some similarities to your experience.

Catch it before it gets worse!

And YES, aerobic exercise -- I am doing the hamster thing at a gym on an elliptical and a recumbent bike, too many ortho issues for running -- helps VERY much! In fact, I am due to go do mine today in an hour...writing fast, here :-)

The brain fog, in my somewhat educated opinion, is a result of several things: how is your diet? I found wheat and sugar killed my brain, made fog worse; how is your apnea treatment? ARE you in fact being treated adequately and/or properly for the kind of apnea you have; and what drugs are you taking, because some of them actually can cause that brain fog....

Let us know how you do! https://myapnea.org/blog/2016/02/complex-sleep-apnea-a-patient-s-story

Hiya --

I have discovered through trial and error and years of waking up exhausted that -- for me -- it is the number of RERAS, or respiratory-effort-related-arousals that matter, and those are not included in the almighty "AHI" that everyone points to. Unless some do include RERAS, I have been given to understand it is the apnea/hypopneas index -- and that does NOT give you ANY measure of sleep fragmentation, which will make you feel like horsehockey in the morning!

In fact, I have had AHIs of 3 and felt better on awakening than I have with AHIs of 0.3 -- no typo there -- but when I put my SD card (from a Respironics machine, the ResMeds don't flag these in the software -->) into SleepyHead software, the mornings I feel like horsehockey, I have had a BIG batch of RERAS in the couple of hours before get-up; mornings I wake up okay or good, very few.... and the sleep fragmentation is what got me into the horrors of bad cognitive deficits.

My guess is that just about ANYthing can fragment your sleep: a restless bed partner, sore muscles, too much sugar/carb before bed, a dangerous neighborhood with gun shots or break-ins, a dangerous relationship, a sick child or significant other....if it fragments your sleep, and you wake up too many times each night, you are going to be in a world of hurt.

So I suggest if you aren't already doing it, go find JediMark's opensource software program called SleepyHead -- it's on his own site now and supports the newest of the Respi machines, so he's keeping it current. Flip him some bucks if you think the software is helpful. There's a lot to learn, but if nothing else and you have a Respi machine, you'll see the RERAS and can track your own subjective quality of sleep versus the somewhat more objective machine data.

You could also go check out SleepImage.com -- I am doing a trial of that device right now, and it provides some info I'm still learning to discern.

Good luck, and let us know how you're doing?

I hear you! And I think that you are one of many "Ns of 1" that researchers could learn from if presented properly.

Personally I wonder whether central/complex apnea is something that occurs during the day, as well, although I understand that the physiology of sleep-time breathing is different.

Have you read Dr. Thomas's article on this site about complex apnea? It may give you some ideas. If I find out anything about this, I will be happy to share it with you.

And don't forget, it's the sleep fragmentation that can be a serious problem, not just the O2 desats.

Can you explain what it is you aren't sure you "agree with the whole sleep apnea thing" about? Maybe we could help sort it out with you.

Hi, captain -- I have a friend who is a pilot and he uses an old Respironics but is now getting a Dream Station; whatever you get, also download SleepyHead opensource software because if you really want to see what's going on, right now that's the way to do it. All the top machines will provide the insultingly-labelled "compliance" data to your doc. But unless you have a keeper, most docs just want to know your AHI is 5 or less. YOU want to know if your sleep is actually good sleep, and for that you need to do a wee bit of work. JediMark, who created SleepyHead, now has updated downloads available on his own website, including versions that support the new DreamStation. And as a long-time PAP user, let me tell you, your brain WANTS to be on that machine any time you sleep, not just the "compliance" time. Come back for more ....