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Machine shuts off

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Apollo +0 points · 3 months ago Original Poster

I have the Resmed Airsense 10. I'm mostly happy with it. However, sometimes I get restless laying on my back all night long. Sometimes, while asleep, I roll over onto my side. My machine will shut off afterwards. This happens every time I roll on my side. I've tested it and there is no more loss of air from the mask than while on my back. I can roll on my side and adjust the mask to perfect coverage and it will still shut off after a few minutes. I cannot figure out how the machine knows that I've rolled onto my side or why it shuts off due to it.

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Sierra +0 points · 3 months ago Sleep Patron

That is a strange one. What mask are you using? There are very few things that will shut off the machine. Perhaps check your electrical connections from the wall to the adaptor to the machine.

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Apollo +0 points · 3 months ago Original Poster

Its a nose-only covering mask. It isn't an electrical issue because I can reach over and hit the button and it will start back up. Also when I roll over, the machine doesn't move, only the hose and I have it secured. I really can't, for the life of me, figure out what changes when I roll over but it happens 100% of the time. Must be something to do with the air ventilation but it has me baffled. It doesn't happen right away. It will usually run for another minute or two before it happens.

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Sierra +0 points · 3 months ago Sleep Patron

Do you have the SmartStart feature turned on? If on, then try it off, and vice versa. If the SmartStart detects high air flow it will shut the machine off automatically. However, it should also start it again when it detects you trying to inhale.

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Apollo +0 points · 3 months ago Original Poster

I will look for that. Thank you!

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Sierra +0 points · 3 months ago Sleep Patron

Here is a link to an AirSense 10 Technical Manual which may be of help.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 3 months ago Sleep Enthusiast

Hi Apollo

The resmed airfit style masks with the main connection on top of the head feed air through the tubes that fun down over the cheeks and if you lie on your side you squash one tube which would be interpreted by the machine as an obstruction or pressure increase.

If it is capable of causing the machine to shut down then the risk of these masks is a even higher than I had anticipated.

Negative Input

Air Sucked Out

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Apollo +0 points · 3 months ago Original Poster

I think I know what you're saying. However, thats not what I'm using. This is a mask that covers only the nose. The hose connection is directly at the nose. I don't want you to get rid of your mask due to this subject because you seem to be talking about a different one.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 3 months ago Sleep Enthusiast

Thanks Apollo but I am more patient and persistent than that.

I use 2 different CPAP machines that both shut down from time to time. I haven't seen any direct cause as yet but I'm usually asleep when it happens although I move around a lot when sleeping.

RBD

I turned the machine around so the controls are out of reach and moved it well away from the bed to avoid inadvertently shutting it off but even so, I have awoken twice this week to find the Icon CPAP upside down.

It's interesting that both the ResmedS9 and the Icon continue to function upside down even with a full tank although the Resmed pumps all the water up the hose which is a bit alarming.

Topsy Turvy

I have the Airsense10 as well but I haven't used it yet. I hope to get to a safer place before I unpack that one.

I also have a few different masks. Unfortunately, the most comfortable mask is also the most dangerous but I continue to use it with a few improvised safety features.

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OldJoe +0 points · 2 months ago

I had an issue last night where I didn't insert and fully lock in the water chamber on my ResMed BIPAP unit. It blew out at some point and shut down leaving me to breathe my own air over and over again for at least 5 hours. I'm a newbie and it caught me off guard so I learned from it. Looking forward to another full night sleep tonight after I don't make any more dumb mistakes.

Joe

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Sierra +0 points · 2 months ago Sleep Patron

Joe, when the machine shuts down breathing is going to get harder, but you don't really breathe the same air in and out. All masks have a vent on them. You can hold your hand over the hose end of the mask and still breathe in and out through the vent. Not all that comfortable, but you do not suffocate, which is a good thing!

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OldJoe +0 points · 2 months ago

Guys, you're just not reading what I wrote. The machine works just fine. 100% my mistake and I just didn't set the humidifier water container into the fully locked position and it bit me in the middle of the night and it popped out. 100% MY fault! I'm sorry but regardless what some think I was actually breathing the same air for hours on end and it's a problem even now.. It's almost 5:00 PM and I still feel the effects... Can't wait for bed time....

Joe

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 2 months ago Sleep Enthusiast

It seems to me that by trying to make masks quieter and more comfortable by minimizing the sound of air hissing through the vent and reducing the draft the manufacturers have overstepped the safety requirements to the point where a sustained shut down is more than just uncomfortable. It is a slow form of suffocation much worse than the Apnea that it was intended to alleviate.

There should be statistics detailing the airflow pressure and volume of the various functional components of these devices.

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Sierra +0 points · 2 months ago Sleep Patron

Each mask manual I have seen has a graph showing the vent airflow vs pressure, plus other technical details. See page 7 of the manual below for the ResMed P10 mask.

https://document.resmed.com/documents/products/mask/airfit-p10/user-guide/airfit-p10-airfit-p10-for-her_user-guide_amer_eng.pdf

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 2 months ago Sleep Enthusiast

I've lost too many neurons to be able to translate that chart into a real situation but what I do know is that if my machine shut down and I was not able to remove the mask within a short time there would be serious consequences even if it was only feeling really bad and losing more neurons.

I note, however, that all the manuals I have seen caution that the machine must be running to avoid excess rebreathing, presumably because the amount of air being breathed is significantly reduced thereby changing the proportions of rebreathed and fresh air. The manual linked above even states that the patient could suffocate.

I concur that this might be a rare event and usually compounded by other factors but how would we know?

I have a family member who passed away quietly in her sleep recently and nobody would have checked to see if the machine was still running or removed the data card to find out if it had shut down sometime during the night. She was old and unwell. Death was not unexpected but, if the CPAP did assist, shouldn't others be made aware of the potential risk? Ignorance is rarely a good choice.

My concern is not with my own safety but with an industry that designs, manufactures, and sells medical and life support devices yet seems to be largely unregulated when it comes to safety factors, and a forum that, in trying to remain positive, skirts around difficult and sometimes vital issues.

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Sierra +0 points · 2 months ago Sleep Patron

The graph of air flow shows how much air goes out the vent at each pressure from 4 cm up to 20 cm. The machine subtracts that intended flow to determine the actual leak rate of the mask. The dead space number is the volume of the mask and is the air that you would rebreathe if there was not venting. Typically the larger the dead space in the mask the higher the vent flow

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 2 months ago Sleep Enthusiast

The p10 and the p30 use the same chart and the same disclaimer, that the manufacturer might produce something different to what the chart depicts, yet the difference between them with the machine off is profound.

The P30 has a vent at the junction on top of the head and another at the nose but both vents are very restrictive and it uses soft hoses which collapse and seal shut if the machine is off and you suck too hard on them, rendering the top vent inaccessible and blocking any additional air that might otherwise be accessible through the machine itself.

I have 3 CPAP machines here and they have all shut down from time to time so from my perspective this is a real issue.

I have 3 different nasal masks and the only one that I considered safe over a protracted period with a dead machine was the Fischer and Paykel Nuance and that was probably, in part, because it leaked so readily and was easily removed.

There must be a way to reduce the risk of these masks when the machine fails. Non-collapsible hoses and an additional one-way valve would be a lot safer than what I am currently using. These kinds of valves are often noisy but if it only operated when the CPAP failed being noisy might be a good thing.

Even if it was at the machine, if it was generous enough, the larger volume of air would reduce the proportion of rebreathed air.

Another option might be to improve the natural airflow potential of the machine itself. Enlarging the filter, fan, and internal airways so that more air can be sucked through the machine after it shuts down.

A more drastic option would be to split the main hose and create a cycle of air from the machine with a one-way inlet valve on the outgoing airflow and an outlet valve on the return flow which terminates at, or through, the machine. This would remove all vents from the mask along with most of the noise and would significantly reduce rebreathing at the mask and facilitate adaptation to an isolated airflow system.

Someone must have considered these and a thousand other options yet they continue to distribute products that are not safe.

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LAD22 +0 points · about 2 months ago

Apollo,

Have you had a download done recently? Some ResMed machines are designed to shut off if the leak is too high. Also both the new design of the ResMed masks and Respironics Dreamwear line are not that great on stabilization and leak. I would stick with the classic strap style mask such as an N20 or and Eson. They are comfortable, stable and leak less than the tube type headgear does.

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PutSleepApneatoBed +0 points · 19 days ago

If a machine turns off under those circumstances, shouldn’t be an alarm? I’ve set up an alarm for situations where the power to the machine shuts down, e.g. during a power outage. My RESMED Airsense 10 for Her has an auto on feature, such that when you start breathing into the mask, it automatically turns on.

If that feature is enabled, does your machine still shut off? I HATE the idea of the machine shutting off while I’m wearing the mask —so much so that I sprang for a standby generator and backup (Freedom) batteries that I can use inline as an uninterruptible power source.

My nomination for additional functionality for the next generation of machines is an alarm feature for power outages/machine shutdowns.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 18 days ago Sleep Enthusiast

The functionality and safety of CPAP machines and equipment is the paramount concern of this forum and any input should be welcome even if it only helps us to better understand the risks and benefits as well as the concerns of other forum members.

It seems to me that the machine can never be truly safe in every circumstance, even for a competent user with a partner, let alone when dealing with patients who have the potential for such a diverse range of extenuating circumstances.

CPAPs, as portrayed in this forum, seem to exist in a twilight zone on the outer edges of independent, fit, and well, yet many CPAPs are still being used beyond that zone with patients who are seriously indisposed, or dysfunctional, or incompetent, hopefully with some oversight, perhaps maintained by occasional or part-time carers.

In the furthest zones patients are in institutions or hospitals, under full-time professional care, often with other devices monitoring their vital statistics.

It's unlikely that the CPAP can be totally safe and functional through all those zones and especially not in the transitional stages.

I wonder if the real solution might be to learn from health professionals and search for, or wait for, better personal monitoring systems and warning devices that are independent of the CPAP unit and its power supply.

Personal Health Monitoring

Maybe one day, in a far-off galaxy, CPAPs will come fully equipped with biosensors, alarms, control of all household appliances, and of course, the latest weather report.

The user manual for that CPAP will keep Sierra busy for quite a while. :)

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Sierra +0 points · 18 days ago Sleep Patron

I don't use one, but don't those finger clamp type O2 meters have an alarm on them? I have heard they can be hard to find as people are using them to monitor their COVID at home.

Best Pulse Oximeters for Home Use

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 18 days ago Sleep Enthusiast

At least one of the devices in your above link has an alarm. Deluxe Unit

Maybe somebody out there has tried one.

There are lots of devices available including a bunch of wrist devices, but not all of them are dependable as yet, and they don't all have alarms, or if so they are not necessarily set off by dropping oxygen.

I seem to recall a forum member mumbling about getting a sore finger.

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Sierra +0 points · 18 days ago Sleep Patron

Late last year I was in hospital for a day procedure, and ended up wearing one all day. I don't recall it being that uncomfortable. But, that might not be the case for all of them...

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 18 days ago Sleep Enthusiast

I think I noted some mention of using them on children so they can't be too mean but it might be uncomfortable to wear one all night every night.

I should just get one and give it a try once they are in stock again but it would probably live in peril as my CPAP does on account of the RBD

It might be safer if I stuck it on a toe. :)

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