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ResMed AirFit P10 nasal pillow mask compared to ResMed Swift FX nasal pillow

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Sierra +0 points · 5 months ago Original Poster Sleep Innovater

It is often rumored that the AirFit P10 mask was designed to replace the older Swift FX nasal pillow mask. The P10 has been on the market for about 5 years or so, but has not pushed the much older FX out of the market. If you believe the CPAP.com sales volume sort of nasal masks, the P10 is currently the most popular, and the FX remains right up there in second place. The FX even enjoys a slightly higher user rating at the site. So how do they compare? I have used the P10 for about 9 months, and now the FX for about a week.

First the Obvious

  • The P10 headgear is simply flimsy and in my opinion poorly designed. They include some mickey mouse clips that are intended to be used to tighten up the mask, but they create bumps that catch on the pillow and make the issue of the mask headgear slipping around even worse. I threw them away, cut the straps and sewed them up about an inch tighter and that helped a lot. Some report that washing the headgear makes it shrink, but I have not noticed that. It has been washed many times, so perhaps I used up that benefit before I cut and sewed them.
  • The FX headgear is more conventional and substantial. I would expect it will last a long time. Silicone would not have been my first choice for a material to use, but I guess it is durable. Some have reported that the back strap tends to slip up during the night. I have not noticed that. Some have reported that sewing the hook side of a velcro strip inside the back strap helps with the slipping. Probably would help, but not sure what that would do for those of us trying to save the last few hairs on their head!
  • The clear winner in the headgear department is the FX.

  • The outstanding component of the P10 mask is the air vent. The large mesh design on the P10 diffuses the air stream making it very quiet and non disturbing regardless of the position you are in. I can't think of a way to improve it.

  • The vent design on the FX is somewhat of a disaster. It consists of perfectly round holes cut at about a 45 deg. angle down from the mask. The angle does divert air away from the face, but it directs it onto your bed covers or your arm or hand. The velocity of the air is very high and some have compared it to the exhaust of a jet engine. The amazing part is that while it has the velocity of a jet engine, it is pretty quiet, until it hits something. Then it makes lots of noise. After a week I seem to be sleep learning how to position the mask and it is an issue that is going away. Some route their hose back over their face and up to a hose hanger to get around it. I have not done that yet!

  • The clear winner of the air vent design is the P10. It is perfection in design.

Now the less Obvious

  • I have not come to any firm conclusion on leaks. I mouth tape, and use a chin strap with the P10. It is about the only way I can keep it on my head for the whole night with those flimsy straps. I thought with the better headgear I might get away with using 2" mouth tape only and no chin strap. However, it looks like that is pretty marginal at best. I like to get zero leaks over the leak redline and this method does not quite achieve it. It seems I have to go back to both the mouth tape and BreatheWear Halo chin strap for the FX as well. No clear winner here.
  • On comfort, the shape of the nose cones appears very similar. I used the Large with the P10 and have only tried the Large with the FX. Both masks irritated my nose for about a week and then it went away. I suspect while they are similar they are not identical. But again no clear winner, and it probably is just a personal nose shape issue.

The Winner?

For me, I will certainly use up the life of the FX, and assuming nothing changes my next mask is likely to be a FX too. The P10 will go in the closet with my F20 as a spare that I hope not to use. Others who have less of an issue with the headgear of the P10 may be much happier with it.

The Question?

This leaves me with one obvious question directed at ResMed. If you wanted to make a mask to replace the Swift FX that was an improvement, WHY ON EARTH DID YOU NOT JUST PUT THE P10 NOSE INSERT AND VENT ON THE FX HEADGEAR??? If they did that I would buy it tomorrow! It really would be the perfect nasal pillow mask.

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sleeptech +0 points · 5 months ago Sleep Enthusiast

Your not thinking like someone who runs a big business. Why would you NOT change the headgear of a mask with something which needs to be replaced 3 times as often, resulting in far more sales and more revenue for your company? It's a no brainer. Remember that, ultimately, while a CPAP mask might be a means of increased quality of life and improved health for you, in our capitalist society it's just a way of making money from the manufacturer's perspective. The fact that it helps you is a side effect.

ResMed seem to have wedged their head further up their own posterior in recent years. They have a habit of replacing perfectly good products with worse ones, just so they have a new thing.

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Sierra +0 points · 5 months ago Original Poster Sleep Innovater

There is always a lot of friction between the marketing department and the engineering department in a company. Sounds like ResMed is no exception. I also wonder if some of their products are not constrained by patent issues. I read the article I found on the ResMed Origins and found that much of their energy over the years has been consumed by legal battles with Respironics and others over patents.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 5 months ago Sleep Commentator

Another conspiracy perhaps? :)

I think I might take out a patent on that white elastic with the button holes and a nice new red sock.

The ultimate fashion accessory for modern CPAP users so they can mix and match their headgear.

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Sierra +0 points · 5 months ago Original Poster Sleep Innovater

I think I have made an industry breakthrough in the mask area. I can't say much more until I get my patent application in. But, I will give you a hint...

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 5 months ago Sleep Commentator

You are a very sick puppy Sierra! :O

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Sierra +0 points · 5 months ago Original Poster Sleep Innovater

Be patient. The project is in the prototype testing stage.

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 5 months ago Sleep Commentator

I think there are laws about using your wife as a guinea pig.

Apparently it's all ok as long as you deck out the laboratory with roses first. :)

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4ntwenty +0 points · 29 days ago

There seems to be more than one sick puppy in this forum.

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thegreatgrampa +0 points · 3 months ago

You hit the nail on the head sleeptech. It's all about the money! In a post on another forum I have been following in reference to issues of possible Hypercapnia caused from clogged vents on the P10. The doctor did quite an extensive study and when he approached ResMed they ignored it. Further down in this thread Sierra tested the Swift FX vs the P10 and mentioned the vent on the Swift FX was fairly powerful. I agree it is, but I feel safer knowing it is venting than I do with a P10 which I have to reach up and and can hardly feel. Personally I am not sure ResMed is the only one replacing quality products with cheaper ones. I have my doubts about the DreamStation lasting as long as my Respironics System One lasted. (8 years)

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Sierra +0 points · 5 months ago Original Poster Sleep Innovater

Well I tried my Mark I modification to the Swift FX to tame that tornado air stream that comes out of it. It was using three layers of fiberglass window screen material taped over the exhaust of the jet engine. It did work really well in in an afternoon nap. It felt good although I only slept for about 10 minutes. Slept overnight with it. Net result was an AHI of 6.3 which is the highest I have been since October 2, 2018. Back to the drawing board.

My hero is Thomas Edison who said “I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”

One down and only 9,999 to go to catch up to Thomas. Mark II is in the prototype testing lab for tonight...

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 5 months ago Sleep Commentator

One of those old fashioned tin whistles with the cork ball might make an effective air flow diffuser ....... and the good news is that it's fair game because the patent ran out before young Thomas was born! :)

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Sierra +0 points · 4 months ago Original Poster Sleep Innovater

I solved my problem of liking the P10 mask the best, except for the headgear. I arranged a marriage between the FX and the P10. Thanks to Sleeptech for the button hole elastic solution. That got me to thinking how it could be done... See this thread where I describe the wedding arrangements. Sorry BUG, I couldn't find the pink tape!

Swift FX - AirFit P10 Hybrid

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KangarooTailStew +0 points · 3 months ago

A drastic solution.

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jeffez +0 points · 4 months ago

[With modifications from previous post] Thanks for this discussion. I'm new to this world of challenge! From this great forum, seems to be best equipment guess by the Dr. then trial and error and lots of self data eval and user guessing, until best or tolerable sleep is found. Anybody tried the new Resmed N30i? [2 wk wait for me it's so new] Or the two DreamWear versions I've seen online. Had my BiPAP Aircurve 10 S w/humidifier for only 4 days and don't like F20 full face. Obstructs vision and must set too tight to overcome leaks. Pressure set to 12-16. Don't sleep opening my mouth and totally sleep on back. Also want the Auto version of BiPAP 10 S instead since it seems to be same price with added capabilities. We'll see how well my Cigna Healthsprings handles that swap. Told I have 30 day window to get best solution by Sleep Center coordinator working between doctor and DME on 13 mo rent to own. FWI - LOFTA offers a 30 nights - risk free. Have no affiliation, just found webpage with good info. https://buyminicpap.com/collections/pillow-masks Also have SleepyHead SW thanks to Sierra's suggestions. Only 4 days data. Actually only 3 since day 1 was crazy adjustment to mask. Looks like good analysis, with much to learn. Passed SW info on to others in industry I've talked to who surprisingly to me never heard of SleepyHead!

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Biguglygremlin +0 points · 4 months ago Sleep Commentator

Well you have been busy jeffez

I don't understand most of it but I'm sure Sierra will. :)

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Sierra +0 points · 4 months ago Original Poster Sleep Innovater

I don't know much about the N30i mask. It seems ResMed is playing catch up to offer a products to compete with the DreamWear series. Not sure about these 30 series mask on how interchangeable they are, but the DreamWear uses the same frame for full face, nasal, and nasal pillow styles. So once you have the frame, it is easier and less costly to switch types.

If you have SleepyHead and you want some opinions on how your machine is working for you, use the orange "Start a New Topic" button at the top of the main forum page and post a screenshot of your Daily Detail. Just press F12 on a PC and watch for the notice where the image file is saved. To post it here left click on that file in your file explorer and drag it into the body of an open message you are composing. It will upload and display here.

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