Biguglygremlin

The mask vent is above the soft tubes that suck flat.

It is on top of the head where the main hose to the machine connects.

You can breathe out quite easily with no resistance but the tubes are a one way valve.

Hence my statement that it leaves you with absolutely no air intake at all.

Wander into your nearest CPAP shop and you can test one for yourself. Pop the mask on, close the intake pipe and hold your hand or a pillow against one cheek and try to breathe.

Paradoxically it is a brilliantly conceived design for comfort and fit and effectiveness under pressure.

Perhaps the prototype used a different grade of silicone but the product that Resmed are selling is dangerously flawed.

It would not be of such a concern to me if I thought that natural reflexes would safeguard the user but they don't.

I use a chinstrap which, arguably you could negate, but that would take a positive instruction.

It would require, not just a reflex to allow the mouth to open, but a conscious choice to actively open the mouth against the tension of the chinstrap and to hold it open against the constant pressure.

It is not a natural and instinctive, unconscious response.

With other masks you have some time to muddle your way to consciousness and remedy the situation but with this mask there is no time.

The initial layout of this thread was designed to show the necessity for a number of steps from emergency wakeup to becoming fully conscious and reactive to urgent circumstances and it could be argued that normal masks do allow enough time for most CPAP users to rectify the problem and recover from the impact but only because there is still a limited airflow. It does not allow for the limitations of zero airflow and it does not allow for the added delays caused by increasing confusion and disorientation and other symptoms of oxygen deprivation nor does it allow for the added liability caused by using CPAP on patients who are already confused or irresponsive due to varying levels of disability or dementia.

I don't doubt that there are situations where SmartStart would prove useful but how many power outages would be short enough for you to hold your breath through them and what about when the shut down is initiated by the machine itself and what if something simple and common happens like the primary hose wriggles loose?

The machine is happily blowing air into infinity and you've had your last gasp.

No matter how many safeguards you put in place the risk still remains in a mask design that can totally obstruct all airflow.

It seems to me that the Resmed Airfit mask is, in itself, inherently dangerous.

Howdy Sierra,

The mask in question is the Airfit P30

Yes both of my machines have shut down in the middle of the night from time to time and it can leave you pretty wrecked, but there is some air that can still be sucked through the machine and the outlet valve and, of course, there are often leaks which can all add up to enabling you to survive for long enough to wake up and deal with the problem, albeit with a bit of a headache.

The Airfit is different. I have tested it numerous times now and if you are lying on your back it does still allow a tiny amount of air through the two depressed tubes, if you don't suck too hard, but if you are on your side with one tube already closed the other tube closes totally due to the negative suction.

It leaves you with absolutely no air intake at all.

Most masks would only pose a serious risk to somebody who was a really heavy sleeper, or if the machine failed at a critical point in a sleep cycle, but the Airfit is a much more immediate risk to a far wider range of CPAP uses.

Other than it's lethal potential it is a very comfortable mask, and works really well for me, so what could I do to minimize the risk?

I gather that the more recent machines can be self starting which would be helpful in a very short outage.

There are also power outage alarms which might be useful although I think that both of my machines are capable of shutting down without the excuse of an outage.

Are there alarms for pressure loss?

I will attempt to adapt the existing mask to prevent the side tubes from collapsing under negative pressure but why have the manufacturers not already considered all of this?

Don't they have some obligation to make sure their products are safe?

Negative Input

Status report:

Waking.

Reason:

Unknown

Light sensor report:

Negative.

Proximity sensor report:

Negative.

Sound recorder report:

Negative.

Pain sensor report:

Negative.

Run internal diagnostic:

Confused, dizzy, not breathing.

Command: Initiate breathing.

Status report:

Situation worsening.

Seek cause:

Breathing failed.

Command:

Breathe harder and monitor outcome.

Outcome report:

Air intake totally blocked!

Emergency:

Confusion and dizziness, darkness encroaching, must act immediately!

Urgent command:

Displace mask and chinstrap!

Status check:

Returning to normal.

Equipment check:

Mask attached and intact CPAP powered but turned off.

Cause of shutdown:

Unknown.

Turn CPAP on, test mask:

Fully operational.

Turn off, test mask:

Can't breathe.

Analysis report:

Mask failure caused when Silicone tubing closes with negative input.

Conclusion:

Unacceptable risk.

Require improved equipment and early warning systems.

If I survive 16 years of CPAP I think I would have the strap tension pretty well figured out.

Most images of the skull to be found online seem to have a trench across the top which is naturally the path that a strap would default to, especially if it was designed to do so.

I do believe that the strap indents the flesh to some extent and as we get older it is very slow to bounce back.

If I was more concerned about trenches I would certainly consider the above suggestion, although I already have issues with everything sliding around, so perhaps something non slip like a flexible silicone strip might serve to spread the effect of the strap.

I imagine the kitchenware people have something that could be adapted.

I tried so hard not to make a statement here but in my twisted world, after several attempts to behave and walk away, I just couldn't help myself.

How can so many subjects in our society be freely and openly discussed up to a certain point and then suddenly become taboo? (Yes I'm off subject again!)

In this discussion about alcohol the perceived social inhibition seems to have been triggered by the last statement and I acknowledge that everybody's circumstances are different but this is just one example.

The same prohibitions arise in discussions about sex or gender or violence or race or intelligence or any aspect of body types or just about anything to do with children.

If it is a balanced polite healthy discussion why does our society allow a single view to effectively close the subject?

In defiance of social protocols I would continue the above conversation and comment that I spent many decades barely wetting my lips with alcohol but now I quaff down a bottle a week.

I would neither recommend nor condemn alcohol although I feel that it does benefit me.

I have very severe apnea and depend totally on CPAP but my nights are so messed up that any impact of the occasional nightcap is undetectable.

I understand that there might be significant issues for some people and for them more caution is warranted but my concerns are simple.

It costs money that I don't have and adds weight that I don't need.

Yes we've been lucky, as has New Zealand.

Many countries are really having a tough time of it.

As you say, without really seeing it ......

I suspect that the only real fix would be to find a metal band, perhaps a keyring, that the hose would lock into, and use a little Grinder to remove enough material around the mask insert to enable it to be glued into place instead of the broken rim.

So my imaginary list above might yet apply because if there is no band of the right size to be found then a simple piece of wire, carefully cut and shaped, would probably do the trick.

Which brings me back to my usual rant: Why are these expensive medical devices so badly designed?

Is this the result of over engineering the design beyond the tolerances and capabilities of where they are being manufactured or is it a design flaw or quality control omission that, just coincidentally, increases future sales?

Thanks for that suggestion MarkHanson,

Somewhere, way back in the annals of history, I tried one of those mask types but I didn't like it because it failed to adequately connect with the nostrils.

They may have improved since then but their online images are hard to see because they are opaque white on white and my monitor doesn't know how to delineate between the mask and the background. (blame the tools!)

I notice that they have a gel pillows version which might work for me if the stems are not too flexible. (and it has a hint of blue so I can see it online) Dreamwear Gel Pillow Mask

Another issue for online purchases it that the head size would be critical with that particular style of mask.

Presumably there are ranges and measurements somewhere.

I wish it were possible to go down to the local sleep clinic and try one on.

Isn't it time someone found or created an encyclopedia of masks with all attributes and statistics listed and compared?

I'm pretty sure that Sierra has already done the work. He just needs to spend a few seconds assembling it! :)

I did find a comparison list so who thinks they got it right and what would you change?

Comparing Best CPAP Masks

Hi Matt,

Let me check out what's in the shed .............. bale twine, fencing wire, safety pins, spackle, bent nails, old stockings, wd40, hair pins, permoseal, bandaids, prepsol, blu tack, super glue, duct tape, kragle (shake shake shake) nope, it's set already. This place is such a mess! :(

Without having the mask in my hands it's hard to know what might work but obviously none of the above.

I suspect that most 'fixes' would compromise the swivel function which could make it cumbersome, especially as the mask seems to have such a thick hose.

I hope somebody here has more experience with this particular mask than I have.

On the opposite tack, is there something you can do to prevent it from breaking?

A different pillow perhaps or a hose stand to take pressure off the connection?

Is it possible that hot water or sunshine are deteriorating the mask?

These products are decaying from the moment they are manufactured so what chemicals are likely to accelerate their decomposition?

On a more constructive note, are there chemicals that would preserve these compounds? (like ArmorAll)

Would this issue be covered by warranty when is seems like an obvious design flaw?

Lots of questions but, unfortunately, no answers, unless Sierra has some fresh kragle?

Well those news papers are on the way to becoming rare collectibles amongst the memorabilia and historical societies but, seeing as how you have shown such a keen interest, and as you don't seem to have a horde of your own, I suppose I could let you have one ......... for the right price! :P